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000207_news@columbia.edu _Sun Feb 6 21:30:39 2000.msg
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From: not-2-disclose@the.net
Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities
Message-ID: <020600211450not-2-disclose@the.net>
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 02:28:18 GMT
Organization: Sympatico
To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu
Hi again Frank,
About "MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities" of February 6:
FRB> Even for someone earning the minimum wage, the $30 would quickly
FRB> repay itself in reduced boot time and sanity over a 8088.
FDC> ...this is not a quote from me.
I don't know if you get paid for $tanding in front of your screen, nor
if you get instant access to the message base... but one thing is sure:
you're quick to protest about some misquoting; still, i can't expect to
see a valid correction made by you. The quote goes to Francis R Bridge;
you just found a flaw, congratulations! This mind game is now starting
to give you benefits - unless i'm the trap and you're the mouse - how do
you think you can ever be sure?... I wish you'd have put as much energy
into writing the 3 lines long 2 sentences i've suggested that you should
have posted has your first/LAST reply, at the very beginning of January:
******************************************[ Hypothetical mode enabled ]*
No, the `MS-Kermit' team isn't and -=* WON'T *=- make any plans for the
addition of other file transfer protocols like `ZMoDem' to its terminal
emulator. Also, the source-code currently available is for v3.15 ONLY.
*****************************************[ Hypothetical mode disabled ]*
You see that negation "WON'T" concatenation of words??? It's never been
written, in this context, in a CLEAR statement made by any member of the
team... Since you'll let others plunge into message archives for you, i
collected this pot-pourri of quotes, specially made for your attention:
> ...no one at the present time is working to implement Zmodem in MS-DOS
> Kermit. Zmodem isn't in the plans for MSK, sorry. ...the Zmodem
> support in K95 is there because somebody donated... I have no plans
> of touching zmodem file transfer material.
Anybody who can read and gather some comprehension from that reading can
see that NOTHING IS SAID ABOUT PLANS FOR THE FUTURE. Actually, the idea
that the `Win 9x Kermit' version could have the `ZMoDem' protocol added
because of a contributor implies just the opposite... The team has been
offered numerous occasions for stating as to wether it was decided that
*`ZMoDem' WON'T BE ADDED* or not!... :-7 Instead, all you will find by
scanning the NewsGroup's archive is a subtle sign of hesitation from the
team; at best, you can find evidence that a member of the team declared
his intention of not doing the work himself - i'll let you find out who.
PLANS FOR THE FUTURE. That's what i've been asking about for a while...
Here's another pot-pourri collection of quotes i made to your atention:
> The source for Zmodem is Omen Technogy. If you want to implement
> Zmodem in MS-DOS Kermit be our guest. The source code is available.
> Write your own Zmodem library to integrate with MS-DOS Kermit that
> does not violate the copyright of Omen Technologies and donate it to
> the Kermit Project. ...the MSK source code is now in hand and being
> scrutinized for local embellishment. That's one reason we publish it.
> You have sources, so please dig into them...
Again, any person who will pay attention to this might gather some basic
comprehension from it; only, that one is a little bit more ambiguous...
This idea that users can "donate"/"contribute" has been around for some
time. What was -= NEVER PUT IN WORDS =- is a clear answer to questions
Charles & myself have asked at numerous occasions: does the team expect
such "willing" users to "embellish" its 2 years, 4 months & 20some days
old version of September 15, 1997... -OR- the latest 3 months & 20some
days old Beta release of Octobre 14, 1999??? To add functionality to a
program that's about 30 months older than the current available version
is nothing like a small compromize; to me, it sounds more like a waste
of time than any sort of "embellishment"!!! Scan all you want, you will
find nothing to disprove the above but i suspect that you won't. In any
case, prove me that's no fling flang for another mind game, if you care!
[...BUT DO YOU CARE? YOU DON'T LOOK LIKE YOU DO!...]
NOTHING HAS BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT PLANS FOR THE FUTURE, NO CLEAR STATEMENTS
CAN BE FOUND ABOUT THE `MS-KERMIT v3.16 BETA 8' SOURCE-CODE!... Are you
interrested in CONTROVERSY only, like you shown you are in your very 1st
reply to me, on January 1, when YOU CHOSE TO DISREGARD MY INTRODUCTION?
No "big things" possible with a tiny program! Sure... AS IF YOU HAD NO
CLUE TO TELL YOU WHAT I HAD BEEN DOING WITH `MS-KERMIT', ALREADY!!! %-7
MS> You'd deny that the BBS world won't just thrive on the `Kermit' ^
MS> protocol alone, even if you were the only users on earth! |
FDC> You're still talking to the wrong people. MS-DOS Kermit... |
[...Oh! Some fling flang ignored - see my last comment above!...] -'
FDC> You have the source code and can modify it for your own purposes...
FDC> If you make a modification that might be generally useful, you can
FDC> send it back and it will be considered for incorporation...
[...Now: the plat-of-resistance!...]
FDC> This applies even if you might not have the up-to-the-minute
FDC> working code. It doesn't matter. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ha! Ha! Ha! %*D)) Make me laugh, i think i earned it!!! %-o
The wrong (`MS-Kermit') people, right!... Your insistance to come back
at us and still not recognize that your team shown disrespect to people
who 1st came to your ~NG~ in good faith only adds to the noise: it made
me forget that it is the so-called "Kermit Project"! "Contribute" is a
magic word, hey? But at the same time, you seem to have a very strange
definition for what's next to "UP-TO-THE-MINUTE" source-code!... 8-o
It's too hard for you to write a clear statement but you'll *volunteer*
happily when it comes to writing "IT DOESN'T MATTER". It doesn't matter
that the "up-to-the-minute" (`MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta 8') source-code would
be available, according to you, but * I S IT A V A I L A B L E * ?!
IS THE `MS-KERMIT v3.16 BETA 8' SOURCE-CODE AVAILABLE? How many degrees
and diplomas do you need to gather before we get a direct reply to THAT?
[...]
FDC> ...you have no right to make people work for you. ...you have no
FDC> right to their time and labor...
Are you being equal to yourself today?! Well, take notice yourself that
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT IN WRITING THAT I EVER DEMANDED PEOPLE TO WORK FOR ME!
The program has qualities but the team insists that they ruin it all by
adding a few stains. The team didn't earn the consideration the program
did in my mind and if it makes you suffer because the program is FREE TO
EVERYBODY, including ME, then suffer! I'll only enjoy this even more!!!
Yours is a clear case of this "FALLACY", like what you started to allege
Charles has been doing and now you're trying the same trick with me. To
my relief, the records are set and you can try to fool us as long as you
wish but IT WON'T CHANGE A THING TO THE CHAIN OF EVENTS. In this case,
the *chain of events* is that i came to this forum with a proposition of
my own and i honestly thought that it could be regarded as a thing which
could be fun or interresting... Scan all you want, you won't be able to
support your interpretation above. Instead, you'll find that the team's
response was quite improper when you consider that the WORK and TIME are
MINE in this case! The choice of irrelevant replies isn't my doing, you
seem to believe that i've chosen to enter this long unproductive thread
but i urge you to begin your own introspection because i know i've done
everything in my power to clearly state my goals, before anything else!
*THIS IS NOT AN OPTION* Remember? The reply was uncalled *PROVOCATION*
and i have every reason to look angry. * YOU * are the one who's making
me loose my time and the more it goes the more it looks like you expect
me to work a little bit harder just to prove a point to this obtuse mind
that you are! I invite you to look for my alleged demands in the ~NG~s
archive - take note that i certainly won't try to track it for you. All
you'll find is that i have a very low esteem of you (and the team), not
because of your knowledge but because of the only thing i know from you:
THE WAY YOU CHOOSE TO ACT THRU YOUR POSTS. Just like Charles suggested
weeks ago: try your manners with somebody you encounter on the walkside
if you dare!!! >:-7 Your actions is the only thing which can impress a
person like me; there happens to be some kinds of show offs to which i
am quite impervious, if you must know... Some other kinds, maybe worst.
If you can't bear to see modest attemps from users who are trying to be
innovative then i'd suggest that you place a warning in the distribution
archive so that such users can be aware, from their very 1st encounter,
that they should renounce to commit a similar sacrilege before they even
think of it!... I'm verry sorry that i disfigured "your baby". You can
be assured i'll never try to share a single "contribution" here again...
I've tried nicely and now i'm outraged, got that? Try to impress me all
you want with the thousands of users, the fact remains that i seen very
little "constructive" scrutiny about the ~NG~-reader script which i have
submited a month ago, on January 1... I wasn't asking for anybody to go
in trance and bow before my achievement but i certainly wasn't expecting
this "genius" mocking thing neither!!! I do know of another `MS-Kermit'
user here; he too was looking for a remedy to the lack of `ZMoDem' and
i was under the impression that he too didn't seem to appreciate the way
"The Team" treated him... How do you like that for a "ME TOO" argument?
8-o
[...Sorry for making mine that "ME TOO" which fits so well, Charles!...]
;-)
[...]
Now, if you are finished with making us waisting our time, tell us if it
is possible to "embellish" `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta 8' IN A 2 LETTERS REPLY
to this question: can we have the `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta 8' source-code?
And, if you feel up to it, try to answer that one: to what condition???
Or maybe you do like controversy indeed - prove me i'm suspecting wrong!
[...]
To our readers, here's another *MISLEADING STATEMENT* that was posted in
this NewsGroup lately (this is not really a surprize to me, though!):
************************************************************************
Performing Zmodem file transfers as an external add-on over a raw TCP/IP
connection is possible; over Telnet it requires that there been a tight
coupling between the Zmodem engine and the Telnet engine such that USING
AN EXTERNAL PROCESS TO HANDLE THE ZMODEM WILL NOT WORK RELIABLY in the
very environment which you wish to use it. |^^^^^^^^|
********************************************[ notice, "reliably"... ]***
An external DOS `ZMoDem' protocol won't work RELIABLY in a session going
over ~TelNet~, hey?? Really?!? To my knowledge, `TCPPort.EXE' from the
`WatTCP' package *IS* providing a connection over ~TelNet~ & ~TCP~/~IP~;
i don't know in virtue of what prodige i was able to do it but a program
like `GLink for DOS r6.1.5' *DID* allow me to *RELIABLY* DownLoad a file
using the `ZMoDem' protocol! Those who wonder who's that quote from are
refered to the ~NG~'s archive on Columbia's ~FTP~ site! 8-o I begin to
feel like imitating Frank when it comes to pointing at quote sources so
i guess that i'll let that chore to others than myself... %-7
In the meantime, no reaction was seen from "The Team" about the existing
*PUBLIC DOMAIN* `ZMoDem' protocols and the suggestion that `MS-Kermit be
rendered the equivalent of `TCPPort' (which it happily used, once upon a
time...), euh... Well, go figure why that's not a good thing for "them"
to consider a DISCUSSION on the EVENTUAL addition of a ~FOSSIL~ "socket"
(if i may say so, to use the analogy), euh... to add the infamous taboo
file transfer protocol: `ZMoDem'! (NO URGING *DEMAND* HERE)!... %-o
Keep us posted, Frank! I have a hint that you will...
[...]
Michel Samson
************************************************************************
* Peculiar bucolic scene: a cow comes to a stop, takes a break... *
* lets you see a little bit more of the whiteness around its immense *
* eyes and then... and then pinch your nose and run for your life! *
* *
* A thought inspired by Columbia's University `Kermit-95' task force. *
************************************************************************